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Re: Is this Justice for killing some one?

Cycling UK Forum - On the road - 27 April 2016 - 11:26am
meic wrote:karlt wrote:It's a hard line to draw; with RTAs there's not necessarily any correlation between the badness of the driving and the severity of the consequences. On which factor should sentencing depend? Take an extreme comparison.

Case 1. Driver stops at side road, looks both ways, but because seccades (http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/raf-pilo ... -cyclists/) misses an oncoming motorcyclist who dies as a result of the collision;
Case 2. Driver speeding around built up area at 60mph, eventually messes up a corner and collides with a road sign. No injuries.

The second case clearly shows far worse driving, and far less care or concern for other road users. But the first case has a far worse outcome. My personal sense of justice can't help but feel case 2 actually warrants a more severe sentence.
As a motorcyclist, I would rather that motorists looked effectively rather than in a tokenistic way that can be fooled by such a phenomenon. Seccades doesnt fool a proper look and a proper look should be an ingrained habit.
I would argue that both drivers were taking risks with others lives but the first was doing it in the same way as the majority and will be forgiven for that reason, in the interest of safety we need the majority to change its habits as that will save more lives.
Why should the majority bother changing its habits when the risks fall entirely on the victim and their position in the majority protects them from any deterrent based punishments. Even no-claims can be protected!
I agree with the general principle that often worse driving results in lesser outcomes. However I believe that Case 1 ought to be treated as dangerous driving, even if there is a strong record of juries acquitting in such cases. We will not address danger on the roads correctly until we understand this.

The reason is that it is precisely the kind of situation that predictably and repeatedly presents a high level of danger to other road users. Thus there should be a duty of care on the motorist to drive in such a way that this large and repeated danger is largely removed. Indeed the fact "saccades" (correct spelling) are a feature of how humans work is not an excuse, rather it is precisely the reason why we must take care to avoid the risk that it presents. Juries tend to take the opposite view. But this is quite a wrong way to manage safety, and not how it is done in other environments. In any other industrial scenario, this would be noted as a risk factor and preventative mechanisms put in place.

Just today a train driver died of a heart attack while driving a train. The train company is not excused because the driver dying, or having some other incapacitating medical event, in his cab is a forgivable human foible. Rather the train company needs to recognise it as a plausible risk presenting high risk to passengers both on this train and other trains, and systems put in place to minimise the risk. In this case, no accident resulted because the safety system designed to cope with this known risk operated and stopped the train. By chance it happened just as the train was pulling into a station it was due to stop at, and thus the train appeared to stop normally at the station: but it could have happened anywhere, and the train would have failed to stop at the station, and could even have gone through red signals presenting risk of collision (despite the TPWS system which does not remove all risk), had the system not operated.

Re: Shane Sutton suspended.

Cycling UK Forum - Racing - 27 April 2016 - 11:00am
Norman H wrote:Some words of wisdom as ever from Nicole Cooke here.

British cycling could do a lot worse than to offer her a job.
I would love to see that, but that is about as likely as the FA offering her a job. The statements issued by BC make it clear that they have done nothing but miss the point.

Re: Poor maintenance

Cycling UK Forum - On the road - 27 April 2016 - 10:59am
Vantage wrote:I can get halfway up the stairs at the Trafford Centre with my walking stick before needing to stop for a rest so my legs can recover.
A 50 mile ride however is perfectly doable even having been off the bike for 2-3 weeks.


And you'll still be quicker than what are apparently the slowest lifts in the world.

Re: Shane Sutton suspended.

Cycling UK Forum - Racing - 27 April 2016 - 10:31am
Some words of wisdom as ever from Nicole Cooke here.

British cycling could do a lot worse than to offer her a job.

Re: A positive thread

Cycling UK Forum - On the road - 27 April 2016 - 10:21am
Our son's bike was once stolen from our 'secure' shed (tamper-proof locks but they levered off the roof ). The household insurance replaced it, and agreed to give us a larger size as he was outgrowing the stolen one.

Re: Poor maintenance

Cycling UK Forum - On the road - 27 April 2016 - 10:17am
Some roads aren't very safe for walking on. I once had to rescue my husband when he stripped his bottom bracket 5 miles from home. By the time I got to him he'd pushed, scooted and freewheeled half-way on small quiet country roads, but the last bit is a a busy, fast, two-lane but narrow rat run with no pavement. It has long hills and blind summits - I try not to cycle on it and was very glad that he didn't have to push his bike on it.

Re: A positive thread

Cycling UK Forum - On the road - 27 April 2016 - 10:10am
We had three bikes stolen in November last year from our garage. Two of the three have been replaced after the insurance payout and we like our new ones better than the stolen ones. We are more wary about home security now but someone positive came from something unpleasant!

Dave

Re: My "friend's bike" turns into 6 year ban

Cycling UK Forum - Racing - 27 April 2016 - 10:05am
Postboxer wrote:So her 'friend' was a cheater, left their bike in the truck and a mechanic just thought it was hers, wouldn't it be set up differently? Or did the mechanic do all that too, setting the saddle to just the right height etc. without questioning why it was different. Did her friend testify to this? Did she name the friend?

The UCI heard testimony from all involved. It seems they weren't convinced by the 'friends bike' argument. It seems to revolve around the idea that there had been an additional bluetooth trigger added to the motor, such that there didn't need to be a hidden button to activate the motor, it could be done by someone standing in the pits or in the crowd.

I understand from GMBN/GCN's testing of the motor involved that it simply spins the cranks at 150W and disengages when you stop pedalling so has to be reactivated each time, so less sophisticated than a normal pedal assist bike, but obviously designed to be hidden.

Shane Sutton suspended.

Cycling UK Forum - Racing - 27 April 2016 - 9:57am
Time to beg for Sir Dave Brailsford to come back to oversee things til Rio? Much as he oversaw the World Championships a couple of years ago.

Re: My "friend's bike" turns into 6 year ban

Cycling UK Forum - Racing - 27 April 2016 - 9:55am
So her 'friend' was a cheater, left their bike in the truck and a mechanic just thought it was hers, wouldn't it be set up differently? Or did the mechanic do all that too, setting the saddle to just the right height etc. without questioning why it was different. Did her friend testify to this? Did she name the friend?

Re: My "friend's bike" turns into 6 year ban

Cycling UK Forum - Racing - 27 April 2016 - 9:41am
Si wrote:reohn2 wrote:NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
Mechanical doping...........six years...
So Medical doping gets you what...........a smack.........

Explain?

I think that he means that the sentences are disproportionate: they are both cheating but using drugs is much more harmful* yet often only brings a ban of a couple of years.


*i.e. not only can it harm the health of the taker but can encourage others to follow suit and become harmed.

I see,feeling a bit dopey this morning..... ....that's dopey,not doped you understand

Re: Large mystery animal

Cycling UK Forum - On the road - 27 April 2016 - 9:39am
rualexander wrote:iviehoff wrote: ....... For example the lion caught in Scotland........
Which lion was this?
Felicity. Mountain lion rather than lion, I now realise.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_b ... nd_remains
http://scotcats.online.fr/abc/photoalbum/cannich.html
It remains the only very large cat taken from the wild in Britain, ie bigger than a lynx, whose physical substance has ever been available for examination, dead or alive, excluding known short term escapes from zoos and circuses. As it notes above, there is clear evidence of prior domestication. There have been a few others, but they have been "medium-sized" such as lynxes.

Concepts such as the "Surrey puma" do not refer to a specific animal known to exist. Rather they summarise a collection of alleged sightings in one geographical area, often over many decades. As I said, most are misinterpretations due to situations resulting in natural optical illusions causing the size of the animal to be overestimated. Nearly all footprints are too small. Nearly all hair samples are shown to be fox or dog. Nearly all maulings of deer and livestock can be shown to be fox or dog. Foxes can look odd if they are melanistic, or suffering from mange: then you just need an optical illusion to get the size wrong.

Re: Poor maintenance

Cycling UK Forum - On the road - 27 April 2016 - 9:30am
I can get halfway up the stairs at the Trafford Centre with my walking stick before needing to stop for a rest so my legs can recover.
A 50 mile ride however is perfectly doable even having been off the bike for 2-3 weeks.

Re: My "friend's bike" turns into 6 year ban

Cycling UK Forum - Racing - 27 April 2016 - 8:55am
reohn2 wrote:NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
Mechanical doping...........six years...
So Medical doping gets you what...........a smack.........

Explain?

I think that he means that the sentences are disproportionate: they are both cheating but using drugs is much more harmful* yet often only brings a ban of a couple of years.


*i.e. not only can it harm the health of the taker but can encourage others to follow suit and become harmed.

Re: Back to Winter weather here on Skye - 25th April

Cycling UK Forum - Touring & Expedition - 27 April 2016 - 8:51am
Return to Winter or rather descended into winter weather in Lancs these last few days, I swear it was warmer in December.... snow and hail has not been unusual here either... with the northerly winds I would any E2E-ers would be best starting at JOG.

Re: Cycle Path Etiquette in the North East (and UK)

Cycling UK Forum - On the road - 27 April 2016 - 8:48am
RickH wrote:an almost continuous two way cycle lane, separated by curbs & bollards from the main carriageway, much of which was contraflowing on the right of one way streets


That is a physically separated cycle path, as opposed to a lane which is demarcated by a painted line.

Re: My "friend's bike" turns into 6 year ban

Cycling UK Forum - Racing - 27 April 2016 - 8:14am
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
Mechanical doping...........six years...
So Medical doping gets you what...........a smack.........

Explain?

Re: Poor maintenance

Cycling UK Forum - On the road - 27 April 2016 - 8:11am
sjs wrote:Lance Dopestrong wrote:A 10 mile walk is no more physically onerous than a 10 mile bike ride.
What?


Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Quite!
Due to an arthritic hip I can walk about a mile and a half on a good day,but I can cycle about 30 or more.

Re: Poor maintenance

Cycling UK Forum - On the road - 27 April 2016 - 8:09am
Vorpal wrote:Topic has been split, and off-topic discussion moved to viewtopic.php?f=15&t=105564

Thanks for that ,there's something like a stuck record for some folk on here
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