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Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Cycling UK Forum - On the road - 18 May 2016 - 12:50pm
sapperadam wrote: That's the wording the coroner would look at and why the coroner makes suggestions about wearing helmets.

+1

The coroner will definitely make some ill-informed, completely baseless comments about the need to wear a helmet while cycling. This will be widely reported in the press and so the nonsense gets repeated and the circus carries on. Will the inquest be informed properly about the actual science of what happened in this case? I don't think so.

Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Cycling UK Forum - On the road - 18 May 2016 - 12:29pm
it is NOT "reasonably practical" for them to do so

Not so at all.

A helmet for a pedestrian is every bit as practical as for a cyclist. What is impractical about it?

For a motorist, even more so - no issues with overheating.

Think harder. It's nothing to do with practicality.

Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Cycling UK Forum - On the road - 18 May 2016 - 12:16pm
and pedestrians wearing helmets. it is NOT "reasonably practical" for them to do so

I dont see how it is any more difficult for a pedestrian to wear a helmet than it is for a cyclist to wear one.
Let alone putting the not in capitals. In fact many cyclists dont bother taking their helmets off when they are walking their bikes.

Also we could declare any thing (crucifixes as an example) to be a safety aid and insist that they be worn on the grounds that it is "reasonably practical" to wear one while cycling.

Re: Gas cannisters in Holland and Belgium

Cycling UK Forum - Touring & Expedition - 18 May 2016 - 12:11pm
The adapter you link to is for the resealable camping gaz cartridges. IME you don't actually see these very often - the cartridges I mainly see in campsite shops and supermarkets are the puncture type. I think Edelrid do an adapter for these as well.

Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Cycling UK Forum - On the road - 18 May 2016 - 12:08pm
I don't wish to preach too much about helmets here but something occurred to me reading this just now.

I work in an industry which is considered extremely dangerous and in fact I work on a site which includes nuclear installations so safety is, as you can imagine, absolutely paramount.

In terms of wearing a helmet on a bike, nobody will know for certain whether a helmet would have helped this poor chap, but, this is where I will take my industry wording for this. Is it "reasonably practicable" for a cyclist to wear a helmet? And the answer is clearly yes as so many of us do. That's the wording the coroner would look at and why the coroner makes suggestions about wearing helmets. It is also why I don't understand why we always make comparisons to motorists and pedestrians wearing helmets. it is NOT "reasonably practical" for them to do so. Cars have other mechanisms to protect occupants in a crash as do pedestrians to an extent (rules of the road etc, but this does need both sides to follow them and that's a different point). Same with stabbing victims wearing stab vests!?! You compare apples and oranges and come up with bananas. If we as a community want to be taken seriously we need to stop doing this and compare apples with apples!

One point to note though, if he had been wearing a helmet and he survived the crash with little more than some cuts and brusies, would we have been discussing this and extolling the merits of helmets? I think not, there would have been nothing to report on.

Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Cycling UK Forum - On the road - 18 May 2016 - 11:57am
Bez wrote:climo wrote:I would be interesting to know if the percentage of head injuries is rising at the same rate as the amount of people cycling.

That doesn't make sense. Do you mean "if the number of head injuries is rising at the same rate as the number of people cycling"? (Which would make sense and would be a reasonable start, but would still be flawed due to not differentiating where and how people ride.)

yes

Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Cycling UK Forum - On the road - 18 May 2016 - 11:45am
Bez wrote:horizon wrote:Bez: where are you on this? I probably accept what you are saying.

I'm with the first bit—where you say that it's a matter of conjecture.

Not the second bit—where you express the view that a helmet would have been useless, based entirely on conjecture.

Yes, it was just to counter climo's conjecture but otherwise we agree and I stand corrected.

Re: New Route Planner

Cycling UK Forum - Touring & Expedition - 18 May 2016 - 11:35am
Not sure the best way to give you the details but here goes!

So here are the route instructions:
18.8mi66.
Turn right onto B6265 Bradford Road
800m
19.3mi 67.
Turn right onto Royd Ings Avenue
900m
19.9mi 68.
Turn left onto Royd Way
200m
20mi major road69.
Turn right onto A650 Hard Ings Road
70m
20mi major road70.
At roundabout take A629 Hard Ings Road (exit 1)


Basically this route is near to Keighley approaching from Riddlesden. The problem is the right turn on to the A650 from Royd Way. No mention of walking or anything.

Googlemaps for the road here:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.87632 ... 043597,17z

The streetview of this turn is here:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Rid ... 41!6m1!1e1


Don't get me wrong, it wasn't a big issue, just thought it was something worth taking a look at. It is an odd bit of road, basically the A650 single carriageway splits into a dual carriageway for the roundabout and the side road joins this bit of road.

Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Cycling UK Forum - On the road - 18 May 2016 - 11:23am
A motorcycle helmet offers much greater protection than a cycle helmet does.

So if I was expecting a crash, or looking back in hindsight at a crash that happened, shouldnt I be calling for motorcycle helmets to have been worn at that instant?

Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Cycling UK Forum - On the road - 18 May 2016 - 11:17am
horizon wrote:Bez: where are you on this? I probably accept what you are saying.

I'm with the first bit—where you say that it's a matter of conjecture.

Not the second bit—where you express the view that a helmet would have been useless, based entirely on conjecture.

Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Cycling UK Forum - On the road - 18 May 2016 - 11:12am
Bez wrote:I'm just amused by the statements to the effect that it's all wild conjecture—that "we will not know", and that "all the tools of forensic science cannot get us any further forward"—followed immediately by the conjecture that the entirely unreported "severity" of the crash was "enough to make a helmet useless".



Bez: where are you on this? I probably accept what you are saying.

Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Cycling UK Forum - On the road - 18 May 2016 - 11:11am
climo wrote:I said 'Your choice of course'. That isn't preaching.

Well, if I were to say "I ate at the Dog and Duck and got terrible food poisoning which I certainly wouldn't have got if I hadn't gone there. Your choice, of course…" I think it sounds just a bit preachy about the food at the Dog and Duck, doesn't it?

climo wrote:Please don't dismiss my experience as irrelevant as you weren't there.

I don't wish to dismiss it as irrelevant, it's not at all (certainly not to you or your views on the matter, though it may well be to this specific incident). I just wanted to point out that if you say "I had a horrendous head injury which would certainly have been mitigated or even eliminated had I been wearing a helmet. Your choice, of course…" then I think it sounds just a bit preachy.

climo wrote:I would be interesting to know if the percentage of head injuries is rising at the same rate as the amount of people cycling.

That doesn't make sense. Do you mean "if the number of head injuries is rising at the same rate as the number of people cycling"? (Which would make sense and would be a reasonable start, but would still be flawed due to not differentiating where and how people ride.)

Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Cycling UK Forum - On the road - 18 May 2016 - 11:08am
eileithyia wrote:All conjecture of course, if they had not been to the pub... perhaps they might not have crashed..... or had better control of their bikes.... etc etc etc... we could go on and on with the theme of what ifs.......

On those issues (the what ifs) we may already be able to draw some reasonable, even if personal, conclusions. On the helmet issue, I live in some sort of dreamland where two men in white coats and tape measures and various other tools actually verify whether a helmet would have been useful. Is it case of we cannot know or simply will not know? Does the science in any practical form exist should the will be there to use it?

Re: Commute to train then walk other end:rucksack/panniers-

Cycling UK Forum - On the road - 18 May 2016 - 10:50am
In the days when I cycled in different clothes from those I work in, I used to keep my suit and ties at the office - and even a spare pair of shoes for when I'd got those really soaked on the way in. That way you only have to carry more limited amounts of clothing that might fit in a briefcase pannier. If that is an option for you?

Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Cycling UK Forum - On the road - 18 May 2016 - 9:58am
horizon wrote:My guess is that we will not know - we will be back to conjecture.

Understood.

horizon wrote:My own view is that the crash was severe enough to make a helmet useless

Buh? *rubs eyes*

Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Cycling UK Forum - On the road - 18 May 2016 - 9:55am
climo wrote:I'm not trying to preach or even trying to restart that intractable debate.

Understood.

climo wrote:I had a horrendous head injury (not cycling) which would certainly have been mitigated or even eliminated had I been wearing a helmet. Having seen what happened to me (paralysed, 2.5 years in rehab, blah, blah) all my friends wear helmets. Your choice of course but…

Buh? *rubs eyes*

Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Cycling UK Forum - On the road - 18 May 2016 - 9:51am
climo wrote:Hate to ask this but was he wearing a helmet? If not and being a head injury would one have helped him?

I think it's a good question and ideally this thread should be moved to the Helmets section where it can be discussed fully.

It was certainly on my mind. Here we have a tragic accident but one that was witnessed, could be carefully calibrated and didn't involve a vehicle. Had this been an air or train crash it would be thoroughly investigated. If it won't be or cannot be then we are none the wiser.

My guess climo is that we will not know - we will be back to conjecture. It is a shame that all the tools of forensic science cannot get us any further forward. My own view is that the crash was severe enough to make a helmet useless but that is only opinion.

My biggest fear is that a coroner will suggest that had he been wearing a helmet he would have survived (based on nothing more than personal speculation).

Re: iPhone GPS Navigation in Holland

Spaine70 wrote:...
What I need to know is how do I download the GPX and then export it into a mapping app that I can use on the bike for navigation...
Whilst I think MapOut the best (I've tried several but obviously not all), one thing it does not do is give turn by turn directions and no voice instructions like turn right at the next roundabout" sort of thing.

It can take your gpx and draw it over a map as in .

And remember, you can get a refund on AppStore apps if you report an problem to Apple with a limited time frame. Just Google refund iphone app and plenty of places telling you what to do. It use to be one of the weaknesses of buying apps through AppStore that you could not try 1st to check if it meets your needs. It was a good move when Apple changed their practices.

Ian

Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Cycling UK Forum - On the road - 18 May 2016 - 9:42am
climo wrote:Hate to ask this but was he wearing a helmet? If not and being a head injury would one have helped him?

1. Reports are not definitive but at least one suggests not (references here).
2. Maybe, maybe not.

Can we start asking the same question of people who die of (or otherwise suffer) head injuries in cars and on foot, please?

Re: iPhone GPS Navigation in Holland

Thank you both for your advice. I think MapOut sounds like the app I will be using in Holland. I will download it this evening and start uploading the GPX files and see how it goes.
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