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Re: Gas cannisters in Holland and Belgium

andymiller wrote:IME you don't actually see these very often - the cartridges I mainly see in campsite shops and supermarkets are the puncture type.
How long ago is your experience?
It's illegal to sell puncture-style stoves (on Euro H&S grounds), and has been for a number of years, so the canisters for them are gradually becoming less and less common.

Re: Gas cannisters in Holland and Belgium

andymiller wrote: resealable camping gaz cartridges. IME you don't actually see these very often - the cartridges I mainly see in campsite shops and supermarkets are the puncture type. I think Edelrid do an adapter for these as well.

This surprises me - Belgium and Holland - in my experience I have found the blue CV cylinders are readily available - in all sizes - in most large supermarkets and in pretty much all home improvement stores - the primus type ive not seen outside good outdoors shops in the larger towns - Ive not been in a decathlon in Belgium or Holland but in most other countries where I have been in a decathlon they carried both types

I dont leave home without at least one eldrid adaptor (CV to primus)

https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page/pic/?o=tS&pic_id=1192076&size=large

I wouldn't bother with the adaptor for puncture type cartridge - I did have one - arrived in Greece off the plane and surmised beforehand that I wouldnt be going anywhere in the first couple of days where I would be able to buy either primus or CV - it was a good plan - 30ks down the road I found some piercable cartridges in a tiny dirty garage - however, I carried the adaptor without using again it for another 10years before it fell apart

Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Cycling UK Forum - On the road - 18 May 2016 - 4:08pm
A full copy of this topic can be found in the Plastic Hat section.

Re: New Route Planner

Slightly random semi-related question: does anyone know how to find the total length of cycle tracks in the UK from OSM?

Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Cycling UK Forum - On the road - 18 May 2016 - 2:59pm
Here is a graph of the effects of a helmet compulsion law in New Zealand.
Numbers cycling declined from about 250,000 to less than 150,000. At the same time the number of injuries per 100,000 cyclists increased from about 500 to about 900.

https://roaddangerreductionforum.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/newzealandhelmetsv6.jpg

It is discussed on this website.

https://rdrf.org.uk/2013/12/17/the-effects-of-new-zealands-cycle-helmet-law/

Re: New Route Planner

I'm not sure about the cycling GPSs, but IIRC the outdoor models (etrex etc.) have a setting for adjusting the amount of pre-warning under the bizarre heading of "off road transitions" in the routing menu.

Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Cycling UK Forum - On the road - 18 May 2016 - 2:40pm
Is this really the place for a helmet debate? We normally respect fatalities by not speculating on causes in case friends and relatives see the thread

Thanks geocycle, you're right. I won't post any more here and I suggest a mod moves the posts from the first question on helmets to the end to the helmets sub forum.

Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Cycling UK Forum - On the road - 18 May 2016 - 2:39pm
geocycle wrote:Is this really the place for a helmet debate? We normally respect fatalities by not speculating on causes in case friends and relatives see the thread.

You're right. However this case jumps out as one where the helmet is significant - there is no car involved, head injuries were reported and no helmet was worn. I take it that we keep it theoretical but it's very human to be curious in this case - I don't think anyone isn't moved by what has happened. I'm sure no blame is being apportioned (or at least not meant).

Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Cycling UK Forum - On the road - 18 May 2016 - 2:33pm
sapperadam wrote:I will take my industry wording for this. Is it "reasonably practicable" for a cyclist to wear a helmet? … It is also why I don't understand why we always make comparisons to motorists and pedestrians wearing helmets. it is NOT "reasonably practical" for them to do so. Cars have other mechanisms to protect occupants in a crash as do pedestrians to an extent (rules of the road etc, but this does need both sides to follow them and that's a different point).

Having additional protection doesn't lessen the fact that it is "resonably practicable". Around half of *all* survived traumatic brain injuries (TBIs) occur inside motor vehicles, so even though the head injury rate per mile or (less dramatically) per hour is lower than that for cycling, if helmets were effective then the absolute benefit would be many times greater. As it happens I have a driving helmet sitting here on my desk; there's no practical reason I couldn't wear it in my car (nor my cycling helmet).

Similar logic applies for pedestrians: figures for TBIs are hard to come by but per-mile fatality rates in road collisions are nearly 20% higher than for cycling and are around 3.5 times greater in absolute terms. The incident rate of head injuries as a subset of all serious injury casualties in road collisions for all three modes of transport are almost identical, so one can infer with reasonable confidence that, again, the overall benefit of walking helmets would be several times that for cycling. Again, it's hardly less practicable: you even see people walking around wearing them after they've got off their bike.

And I'm not sure how you can use "rules of the road" to argue as a reason to eschew helmets when walking or travelling by car but not for cycling.

sapperadam wrote:One point to note though, if he had been wearing a helmet and he survived the crash with little more than some cuts and brusies, would we have been discussing this and extolling the merits of helmets? I think not, there would have been nothing to report on.
climo wrote:You only hear of the bad accidents and not of the 'good' ones where helmets were worn. People just pick themselves up and carry on.

I'm afraid that's simply not true. The media is rife with stories of people who've been Definitely Saved by helmets. (Not to mention other things.)

climo wrote:I was in rehab with a doctor who had a head injury from skiing. He had no helmet and hit a tree. After 5 years private top class neuro rehab he could stand and, held by 2 physios, take 3-5 steps. Humbling to watch believe me. Anecdotal I know but proof for most people.

And have you heard of Michael Shumacher? Another anecdote, but one which—since they constitute proof for you—is "proof" that it's no more than a lottery.

Closer to home, you could look at the case of Daniel Squire and that of Kevin and Caroline MacDivitt. All struck squarely from behind at very similar points of very similar vans being driven at very similar speeds. If we take these two cases, helmets correlate with death and bare heads correlate with survival.

What do these anecdotes prove? Nothing. They're anecdotes.

Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Cycling UK Forum - On the road - 18 May 2016 - 2:33pm
Is this really the place for a helmet debate? We normally respect fatalities by not speculating on causes in case friends and relatives see the thread.

Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Cycling UK Forum - On the road - 18 May 2016 - 2:25pm
Anecdotal I know but proof for most people.

And that's the rub.

We *know* that anecdotal evidence is not, in general, borne out by controlled studies. That's why it's illegal to market a medicine without not just performing a controlled study, but having it approved by an independent regulator.

Anecdotes provide data to form a hypothesis; a properly controlled study tests the hypothesis.

Your hypothesis seems to be that cycle helmets offer significant protection to cyclists. Unfortunately, it's not a hypothesis supported by evidence, where there is much contradictory data from studies on cycle helmets. That in itself suggests any protection offered is small: if the effect were large, it should be obvious from studies.

Dismissing the value of a helmet in any individual accident would be foolish. Asserting that anecdotal data should be relied upon in coming to a judgement on the overall effectiveness of helmets would be equally foolish.

It's a mystery to me why cycle helmets are picked out as being suitable to subject to decision by anecdote, whereas no other similar innovations are. Perhaps you could let us know why you believe this to be appropriate?

Re: New Route Planner

Hm - just googled that (my own Garmin is an ancient eTrex so no help!). It looks like the Edge only announces the notifications at the actual turn itself, rather than "looking ahead"; so to get advance notification, I'd have to shift the notification in the .tcx file to 30m or so earlier.

Any Garmin experts able to confirm this? It looks like RideWithGPS offers this as a premium option ("Notify Before Turn"), and I'm not averse to adding stuff to cycle.travel for free which is paid-for on other sites.

Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Cycling UK Forum - On the road - 18 May 2016 - 2:07pm
At last a voice of reason esp the last para. You only hear of the bad accidents and not of the 'good' ones where helmets were worn. People just pick themselves up and carry on.

It isnt reason.
You dont hear of the crashes where people didnt have a helmet on and just pick themselves up and carry on. Holland shows us that the helmets saving lives like this just isnt happening in real life.
The same reasoning can apply to a crucifix equally as well as to a cycle helmet. The difference is that more people believe in helmets than in crucifixes.
I cannot see why anti cycle helmet people state that helmets on motorbikes are necessary because motorcycle accidents are more dangerous. Assuming that you don't get hit by your own bike why are they any different at say, 30mph to a cycle accident?

There are no anti-cycle helmet people on this thread yet.
A motorcycle that can only do 30mph is a moped. Most motorcycles are doing quite a bit more than 30mph the motorcycle helmets and helmet laws certainly had speeds greater than 30mph in mind.
Not many cyclists get up to 30mph and very few sustain that speed.

Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Cycling UK Forum - On the road - 18 May 2016 - 2:00pm
The box reads:
"You have made a sound decision to purchase your Davies, Craig Motoring Helmet. Wear it and don’t feel self-conscious. Driving even for the most proficient is dangerous.

Ultimately, motoring helmets will be commonplace, but in the meantime, you will be a leader whilst those who may consider your good sense misplaced, will follow."


http://www.copenhagenize.com/2009/05/motoring-helmets-for-real-high-risk.html

Can't see it on the Davies,Craig website now. Seems it didn't catch on.

Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Cycling UK Forum - On the road - 18 May 2016 - 1:55pm
sapperadam wrote:I don't wish to preach too much about helmets here but something occurred to me reading this just now.

I work in an industry which is considered extremely dangerous and in fact I work on a site which includes nuclear installations so safety is, as you can imagine, absolutely paramount.

In terms of wearing a helmet on a bike, nobody will know for certain whether a helmet would have helped this poor chap, but, this is where I will take my industry wording for this. Is it "reasonably practicable" for a cyclist to wear a helmet? And the answer is clearly yes as so many of us do. That's the wording the coroner would look at and why the coroner makes suggestions about wearing helmets. It is also why I don't understand why we always make comparisons to motorists and pedestrians wearing helmets. it is NOT "reasonably practical" for them to do so. Cars have other mechanisms to protect occupants in a crash as do pedestrians to an extent (rules of the road etc, but this does need both sides to follow them and that's a different point). Same with stabbing victims wearing stab vests!?! You compare apples and oranges and come up with bananas. If we as a community want to be taken seriously we need to stop doing this and compare apples with apples!

One point to note though, if he had been wearing a helmet and he survived the crash with little more than some cuts and brusies, would we have been discussing this and extolling the merits of helmets? I think not, there would have been nothing to report on.

At last a voice of reason esp the last para. You only hear of the bad accidents and not of the 'good' ones where helmets were worn. People just pick themselves up and carry on.

I cannot see why anti cycle helmet people state that helmets on motorbikes are necessary because motorcycle accidents are more dangerous. Assuming that you don't get hit by your own bike why are they any different at say, 30mph to a cycle accident? You're still likely to come off slightly to the side and scrape your head on the ground.
My physio was stopped at lights on his motorbike when he was T boned by a Volvo coming out of a side street at 20mph. Knocked sideways and scraped across the road, hitting his head on the kerb. He walked away (but with life threatening internal injuries) and credits his helmet with saving his life. That's his professional opinion.
My wife was, until recently, a world class competitive snowboarder. She's witnessed accidents where fellow helmeted snowboarders hit their head and only suffered concussion preventing, in multiple witnesses opinion, much worse damage.
I was in rehab with a doctor who had a head injury from skiing. He had no helmet and hit a tree. After 5 years private top class neuro rehab he could stand and, held by 2 physios, take 3-5 steps. Humbling to watch believe me.
Anecdotal I know but proof for most people.

It's your choice whether to wear one but please don't dismiss their value in many accidents.

My son's Balkan tour

I'm way past my touring days alas, and I don't often come to this section.

My son however has taken it up with alacrity and has just completed a 6-week, 1300 mile solo tour of the southern Balkans, taking in Albania, a small part of Greece, Macedonia and Kosovo. He doesn't post on this forum so I offered to put up the link to his blog.

Some of it has been rather hastily put together (he's just set off today on another long trip - sans bike - to the Far East). But hopefully a useful read for some on here.

Re: Long touring without front panniers

Bicycler wrote:Rather than buying a new bike you could just replace the suspension fork. Surly have a few suspension corrected forks with front carrier braze-ons. Or you could use any suitable rigid fork and a clamp on or axle-mounted carrier.

Thanks dude! I'll look into it.

Re: New Route Planner

Yep that sounds like the problem! Thanks for taking a look at it and for all of the effort in providing the tool!

Since I have your attention When you come to turns etc. you will get a notification to turn left/right etc. Is there any way to get this notification sooner? With my Edge 520 I often don't get the notification until after I have actually turned the corner or whatever. This may be down to my edge lagging a little when following a course, but if there was a way to get the information earlier I'd probably use it.

Thanks again!

Re: New Route Planner

Ah - looks like OSM didn't have the road marked as a double carriageway, so cycle.travel thought it could just turn right onto a single carriageway. I've just fixed it and it should be ok as of the next map update.

Re: Cycling from Lourdes to Perpignan

I'm currently cycling from Perpignan to Andorra. Then I'm heading into Spain. The highest pass is around 8000ft I believe!
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