Cycling UK Forum - Touring & Expedition

Syndicate content
Discussion boards hosted by Cycling UK
Updated: 18 weeks 1 day ago

Re: Navigation - Garmin

11 February 2016 - 1:19pm
My phone costs 600 quid to replace, my Garmin 800 cost 250 quid and comes with full OS maps for the UK. I know which one I would rather stick on the front of my bike. It's also easier to use with gloves, which at the moment is a big plus. That and the 12 hour battery life means, for me, it beats using a phone.

I also have Garmin Fit on my phone (now sadly deleted from the app store by Garmin, Im guessing to try to get you to buy more of their hardware). It works very well, but my phone is not water proof. My phone only lasts 3 hours running this app with GPS. It needs a data connection to get maps (I know with other apps i could probably offline these though!). It's a good backup to have in my pocket, but not something I would want to rely on as the sole means of navigation when out touring.

Re: Best camera for touring

11 February 2016 - 1:11pm
Don't you guys just yearn for a period of stasis! Imagine how different it was back when you bought your 35mm rangefinder and then kept it for years - decades, even. You got to know the camera intimately - the plating could be worn away...

Re: Best camera for touring

11 February 2016 - 12:11pm
Audax67 wrote:Dilemma:

if you get a toughened camera it'll take being dropped and doused but the sensor will be small, the zoom range will be small and the image quality no more than OK.
if you get a big-zoom compact it will not take to water or rough handling happily but the image quality *might* be better.

I missed a lot of shots by having an ordinary compact in a plastic bag that was a lot of faff; and I missed a lot of shots by not having it in a plastic bag - 3 days' worth while it dried out.

Nowadays I carry a somewhat elderly Panasonic FT3. It fits into the first category above.

Moral: if you can afford the expense and the weight, get two cameras, a toughened one such as that Olympus and a "good" one. Keep the good one in its own bag in a pannier and the waterproof one handy in an HB bag or pocket. I have an original Sony RX100 which is excellent, but I rather covet my wife's Sony HX90v, whose image quality doesn't quite match the RX100 but whose 30x lens brings in stuff the RX100 won't sniff at.
Is the correct answer, I think.

On the desk in front of me is an FT1. It is battered and scarred beyond belief, having taken more abuse than is entirely healthy, particularly on my fishing trips. It still takes a decent picture and will continue to do so whilst it still lives!

Re: Navigation - Garmin

11 February 2016 - 12:09pm
freeflow wrote:
- better waterproofing and shock-proofing
My smartphone doesn't get cosseted by being wrapped in a case. Last year it did over 6000km in a minimalist clip in holder on my bike. I do appreciate that Garmins need to be tougher on account of the fact they keep falling off the bike. SOmething my Smarphone has never done.


I can't remember the last time my gps came off. I think it was about 10 years ago on a very rough mountain bike trail (admittedly I now Ram Mount holders rather than Garmin). Your phone is presumably rainproof.

Yes. Peoples experience may vary. My experience is that my 305, 705 and Bryton 50 all took unplanned excursions during their life so I may be a little biased in that respect. When I started using a minimal clip in holder for my xperia I was paranoid about it coming off. But it hasn't. And this has included riding Km of pretty rough stuff.

So explain all the people I see charging garmins every control I reach when I go Audaxing.


There are more Garmin users? Confirmation bias? (you notice the Garmin users because they confirm what you already believe). I don't know what the battery consumption on the Edge series is like, but in over 10 years of using a Garmin GPS I've always got two days out of a set of rechargeable AA batteries.


I don't go looking. I notice because its happening. But as you say if you are using en etrex you will probably have much better battery life. The OP isn't. His battery life won't be much better than a recent mobile phone. I never got much more that 8-9 hours out of my previous devices so I was impressed that my xperia lasted as long as 5 hours on its internal battery. Of course this is using offline maps. using online maps for gps absolutely murders your battery.

Re: Best camera for touring

11 February 2016 - 11:55am
Dilemma:

if you get a toughened camera it'll take being dropped and doused but the sensor will be small, the zoom range will be small and the image quality no more than OK.
if you get a big-zoom compact it will not take to water or rough handling happily but the image quality *might* be better.

I missed a lot of shots by having an ordinary compact in a plastic bag that was a lot of faff; and I missed a lot of shots by not having it in a plastic bag - 3 days' worth while it dried out.

Nowadays I carry a somewhat elderly Panasonic FT3. It fits into the first category above.

Moral: if you can afford the expense and the weight, get two cameras, a toughened one such as that Olympus and a "good" one. Keep the good one in its own bag in a pannier and the waterproof one handy in an HB bag or pocket. I have an original Sony RX100 which is excellent, but I rather covet my wife's Sony HX90v, whose image quality doesn't quite match the RX100 but whose 30x lens brings in stuff the RX100 won't sniff at.

Re: Navigation - Garmin

11 February 2016 - 11:28am
I actually agree with your main point: if you just want something for training, or a bit of audaxing, or maybe even an occasional tour, then the cost of the top-of-the-line Garmin models does seem hard to justify when compared with a smartphone that does most of what you want well enough, and is more versatile.

freeflow wrote:- better waterproofing and shock-proofing
My smartphone doesn't get cosseted by being wrapped in a case. Last year it did over 6000km in a minimalist clip in holder on my bike. I do appreciate that Garmins need to be tougher on account of the fact they keep falling off the bike. SOmething my Smarphone has never done.

I can't remember the last time my gps came off. I think it was about 10 years ago on a very rough mountain bike trail (admittedly I now Ram Mount holders rather than Garmin). Your phone is presumably rainproof.

- better sensitivityHow. I have gps with agps and glonass. I sometimes struggle to get a signal indoor but that's OK because I ride my bike outside.

Bigger aerials (although I don't know how the Garmin Edge series compare with smartphones). There are times when satellite reception can be iffy - it doesn't happen that often though, so probably not an issue for most people.

So explain all the people I see charging garmins every control I reach when I go Audaxing.

There are more Garmin users? Confirmation bias? (you notice the Garmin users because they confirm what you already believe). I don't know what the battery consumption on the Edge series is like, but in over 10 years of using a Garmin GPS I've always got two days out of a set of rechargeable AA batteries.

Locus maps can handle multiple POI overlays as well as POI specifically embadded in the GPX I'm following.

I carry about 20 thousands custom POIs (campsites, hostels, water etc etc). I suspect that Garmin has the edge here (excuse the pun), but again I suspect that this isn't something that will bother casual users.

I log onto andromaps, select the map I want, there is a button for automtic installation in Locus maps?
In IBbike download, unzip, copy to phone select mapping source. How is that difficult?

Yep the Andromaps guy seems to have done a brilliant job of making what used to be a painful process a lot easier.

Re: Best camera for touring

11 February 2016 - 10:59am
Check out:

http://www.dpreview.com/buying-guides

The camera market is changing so quickly at the moment that it's very hard for anyone other than a real enthusiast to keep up.

After agonising between it and the Sony RX I went for the Panasonic LX-100 which I've been very happy with - but how it compares with the current Sony I don't know (I must admit I have missed not having the electronic neutral density filters for long exposures in bright sunlight).

Things you might want to consider:

- manual exposure controls?
- support for shooting in RAW?
- interchangeable lenses? There are some lovely interchangeable lens cameras ought there. I've always settled for an all in one camera because I have a pouch that goes on my backpack and an interchangeable lens camera won't fit in it, but there are times when I miss not having a telephoto for details
- viewfinder?

Re: Best camera for touring

11 February 2016 - 10:37am
I have the RX100 mark 1 and it's a superb little beast. Fits in a trouser pocket. The mark 1 is still available for £250ish, which is a steal: for me, the mark 4's advantages aren't compelling enough to upgrade. I just wish I had the time to tour more and take more photos with it, but ain't that always the way...

Re: Best camera for touring

11 February 2016 - 10:15am
I bought an Olympus Stylus 1 last year. It is the spiritual successor to the C730UZ with the same 10x optical zoom range. I like the camera, it is reasonably small and light, can be used single handed and works a lot faster than the C570UZ that it replaced. The picture quality is good, much better than the C570UZ and the lens is fast, f2.8 over the whole zoom range. There is a good selection of standard modes plus the ability to use manual focus in some of the modes. The main bugbear for me is that you can only charge the battery using a mains charger. Having said that I find battery life to be excellent.

I suggest you spend some time reading up about long zoom cameras. The optics in a 30x zoom are a much bigger set of compromises than say one with a 10x zoom range. More pixels (to allow cropping afterwards) and smaller optical zoom are likely to give you better results if you are prepared to post process pictures.

Re: Best camera for touring

11 February 2016 - 10:14am
Panasonic LF1 , 7x zoom, viewfinder for bright days, smaller and lighter than anything else, great bokeh with an f2.0 lens, shoots RAW. An absolutely brilliant street camera. Cameras with 30x zoom with small lenses are a mass of compromises.

Heres a great photographers comprehensive review : http://www.theinspiredeye.net/panasonic ... ulti-tool/

You can now pick them up for £170 or so down from £350 which I paid for mine.

Al

Re: Best camera for touring

11 February 2016 - 10:02am
A view finder is not necessary but may be useful for other applications. Really I want to point and shoot and move on. What I don't want is to have to read menus in the sun with the wrong glasses on! I would like to take and save more photos generally and would prefer not to have to buy two cameras.

Re: Reivers Route (sustrans route 10)

11 February 2016 - 9:52am
janetpl wrote:What is the off road section through the Kershope forest like - is it OK on a touring bike?

It's a while (2008!) since I did it it but I managed OK on a touring bike. here are some pictures viewtopic.php?f=16&t=14719&hilit=reivers

Re: Navigation - Garmin

11 February 2016 - 9:46am
- better waterproofing and shock-proofing
My smartphone doesn't get cosseted by being wrapped in a case. Last year it did over 6000km in a minimalist clip in holder on my bike. I do appreciate that Garmins need to be tougher on account of the fact they keep falling off the bike. SOmething my Smarphone has never done.

- better sensitivity
How. I have gps with agps and glonass. I sometimes struggle to get a signal indoor but that's OK because I ride my bike outside.

- better battery life due to the fact that you don't have other apps running in the background
So explain all the people I see charging garmins every control I reach when I go Audaxing.

- ability to handle POIs
Locus maps can handle multiple POI overlays as well as POI specifically embadded in the GPX I'm following.

- easier to load offline mapping.
I log onto andromaps, select the map I want, there is a button for automtic installation in Locus maps?
In IBbike download, unzip, copy to phone select mapping source. How is that difficult?

My phone is slightly less robust that a garmin because it has to compete in the 'looking sexy' smartphone market. If I didn't want such a big screen and I was happy with using BTLE sensors then I'd go for something like the Samsung Galaxy XCover

http://www.expansys.com/samsung-galaxy- ... ck-283940/

Re: Best camera for touring

11 February 2016 - 9:46am
Does it have to have a viewfinder? The Olympus "Tough" cameras can take a lot more abuse than the Panny or Sony. If you are looking to get into photography and like using manual controls like an old-fashioned rangefinder or SLR rather than delving into endless menus like all digital compacts, the Fuji X cameras take excellent stills and are a pleasure to use once you get the hang of them.

Re: Navigation - Garmin

11 February 2016 - 9:03am
I went through a similar decision process recently a day was swaying towards the phone idea (funnily enough a Sony as well due to good battery life or iPhone as they have a better selection of bike specific cases)

After a bit of humming an aweing

I went with the dedicated unit, it does what it's designed to do very well and without the other compromises or size

So got a Edge 1000 in a cracking deal off Amazon, only used it a few times but does what it's meant to do very well, and with the info Garmin Connect can provide will be a excellent training aid.

Just getting used to it, so don't gave much to add except during navigation if you gave turn by turn switched on when you start your route the unit takes a when to work the route out, even though you've loaded it via Connect, found if you switch Turn by turn off and just follow the track the unit starts you journey a lot quicker.

That might get sorted by a firmware update I don't know but Garmin are pretty good at supporting there products

Best camera for touring

10 February 2016 - 11:50pm
I have a few trips planned this year and want to be more dedicated in taking pictures. I need something easy to handle, light, quick to pick up and shoot with good picture quality and battery life. What is best at the various price points? I was thinking of a PanasonicDMCTZ70 or a SonyRX100 mark IV if I can get one cheap enough

Re: Navigation - Garmin

10 February 2016 - 10:49pm
I guess it depends on what you want. If you're only going to be a casual user then getting a dedicated device can look expensive (especially one of the top of the range Garmins). But if you are using a gps regularly then investing in a dedicated device can pay off:

- better waterproofing and shock-proofing
- better sensitivity
- better battery life due to the fact that you don't have other apps running in the background
- ability to handle POIs
- easier to load offline mapping.

But yes, you can't answer emails, book a hotel, check your bank balance, or read an eBook.

Re: Triskell Guide to Cycling Holidays in Brittany

10 February 2016 - 10:45pm
thelambkin1 wrote:Hello

I recently purchased a second had copy of 'Triskell Guide to Cycling Holidays in Brittany' hoping to use it to plan a tour of Brittany planned for this summer. Unfortunately the book does not contain detailed route information but rather directs you to a series of route cards that were available (back in the early 90's when the book was published) for purchase from the CTC.

I've spoken to the CTC who said they don't have a stock of the cards and suggested I post a note on the forum to ask if anyone here knows where I might be able to find the cards? I've tried a Google search but this only returned references to the book not the cards.

yours, in hope

Andy

Hi Andy

You'll find a couple of routes on my website - for example this is a guide for a tour from Roscoff - http://www.bretonbikes.com/homepage/cyc ... at-roscoff but if you want other stuff don't hesitate to get in touch - always happy to help...

Reivers Route (sustrans route 10)

10 February 2016 - 10:19pm
What is the off road section through the Kershope forest like - is it OK on a touring bike?

Re: Navigation - Garmin

10 February 2016 - 10:17pm
Is it a computer or a telephone, a diary, a calculator, a camera, or a GPS device? All the things they do may be ok, but none of the things they do they do as well as a dedicated device would do them.


Its all of them and more and it does them exceedingly well. I was a long time user of GPS starting with a Garmin 305 (died due to battery contact issue), Garmin 705 ('Lost' at end of sportive whilst packing car), Bryton 50 (eventually gave up due to having to load routes through their website.

My smart phone (Sony Xperia Z ultra) is easier to use than any of the previous gps. Has more functionality. Has better flexibility because you can run small specific programs in parallel (on android at least) rather than one badly written lump of proprietary software.

MY Xperia is an ANT+ enabled phone so I can get my stats. I used to use Ipbike for this but have recently switched to Locus Maps which is an amazing piece of software (Navigation,ANT+, stats, user downloaded maps (including OS), POI overlays, geocaching) plus other stuff). Using the smartphone opens new horizons. I use it for recording info controls for Audax, reporting my realtime position for Mrs F, something to read from my extensive kindle library when waiting at stations etc, time logging (I work as a contractor), music/iplayer (via downloaded programs if I know I'm going to be offline). I'm now on my second Xperia Ultra because my first finally died due to bouncing down some concrete steps I couldn't find anything as usable to replace it.

I could ramble on.

For longer rides (about 5 hours+) I do need an external battery. I have a small 10,000 mah pack (which also runs my front lights if I need it) which means that on a 200km Audax my phone is still fully charged (but the battery pack is pretty drained). The battery pack has user replaceable batteries so for a small weight penalty I could do a 600km Audax with impunity (my bum would give out first!!!)

As it is a big phone I know it burns battery due to the screen size. Reputedly the Xperia Z3 compact has a phenomenal battery life (200 km+ on its internal battery) when used for GPS navigation.


So I make the recommendation again. When your Garmin comes send it back. Its really just a badly built smartphone where the phone bit has been disabled/not implemented.
 
  • Patron: Her Majesty The Queen
  • President: Jon Snow
  • Chief Executive: Paul Tuohy
  • Cycling UK is a trading name of Cyclists’ Touring Club (CTC) a company limited by guarantee, registered in England no: 25185. Registered as a charity in England and Wales charity no: 1147607 and in Scotland charity no: sco42541. Registered office: Parklands, Railton Road, Guildford, Surrey GU2 9JX.

Copyright © CTC 2016

Terms and Conditions